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That's an awful explanation

Posted by Icarus on 2012-October-12 17:59:56, Friday
In reply to Grand juries posted by God's Avenging Angel on 2012-October-11 13:16:33, Thursday

You're misunderstanding and misusing the word "intent" here. Everybody's been charged with a federal crime, 18 USC § 2252(a)(2). Nothing in the statute has anything to do with the "intent" of the viewer in using the material. Whether or not the person is a pedophile is irrelevant and no such evidence either way would be allowed.

Nor would anybody ever be prosecuted under 2252 for possessing Sears catalogs. The definitions and case law in that statute simply have nothing to do with the viewer's intent or reasons for possessing them.

The only "intent" applicable here is what we call mens rea, which is the intent to commit a crime. Here because of the language in the statute it's particularly difficult for the government to prove that you received it knowing it contained sexual conduct, unless -- surprise! -- the person confesses it. Which investigators are highly trained to elicit without you realizing it. And here it looks like everyone promptly fell for it. Stupid, stupid, stupid. That's why you don't talk at ALL (except to give your identity if asked).

Without that confession, all they can really get these people for is possession. Federally, anyway. And if the person refuses to say anything, and possesses nothing because they destroyed it well before they were raided, well, then the government has nothing at all. That's why if you're on the Azov list, make sure everything is destroyed, and that they won't find the pieces. Expect a knock at your door, and practice saying "I don't wish to talk."

And to clear up some other ignorance I've read:

No, child porn is not defined by "whatever the jury defines it as." It's defined by applying standards from the statute and case law, the same standards used for everyone, and the judge will give those standards to the jury and instruct them they have to use those when deciding. If the jury blatantly disregards them, it's a mistrial (unless in favor of the defendant). And if the evidence unquestionably does not meet the standards, it won't even go to the jury in the first place, because the whole case will be dismissed.

Secondly, and most dangerously, they don't have to necessarily "read you your rights" and yet things you say can be used against you! Ignorance of this is how they get people to incriminate themselves. People think that because they haven't been "read their rights" that things they say can't be used against them. Or that if questioned, you can say "I want a lawyer" and they have to give you a lawyer and stop questioning you. However, that's only true if you've been arrested or detained (you're not "free to go"), and they plan to question you. Otherwise (with caveats), what you say is considered voluntary.

So in cases like this where so much depends on a confession, they may raid your home with a search warrant, and will tell you you're free to go, or you can stay and "sit over there." They'll probably reiterate you're "free to go" and ask for a key so they can lock up after they're done. "Or," they'll say, "you can stay here, it's up to you." They know most will probably stay. But now you're there voluntarily, so Miranda doesn't apply. And now they got you. Anything you say can be used against you. They'll start their games that even experienced LE falls for. Use that "free to go" and actually go. Drive to your attorney's office or to a hotel, so you won't be tempted to speak.

And don't trust me on this, and certainly don't trust some of the other garbage posted here. If you're on the Azov list, you need to find a local criminal attorney who handles federal cases and set up a consultation where you can explain your situation and ask what to do if you're questioned or your home raided. Explain to the attorney you thought it was legal nudist material until you saw news stories about it, so you destroyed it. He'll give you proper legal advice you can trust is accurate.


Icarus

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