The joys of wickedness

In the linked thread, you do a nice job of defending Augustine. I can accept all your points, but I still have to say that, for myself, Augustine is a deeply unattractive figure. I don't think that anyone who believes that infants who die unbaptised are tortured for all eternity, and deserve to be so tortured, can be a wholly civilised person; and the fact that this was somewhat characteristic of the age only indicates, to me, that civilisation had decayed rather badly. And that's not to mention Augustine's moral strictures on scrumping, surely the inalienable birthright of all schoolboys, whether hungry or not, throughout history. I went to a boys' boarding school (not a high class one, but one with a disproportionate share of 'problem kids', from all social backgrounds), and the school actually grew an orchard on its grounds, completely unguarded, and then forbade the boys to pick apples from it! Was this some kind of elaborate joke? Furthermore, there was a considerable interval between meals. After dinner (1pm), there would be nothing further until tea at about 7.15pm. As a result, I remember being hungry quite often. One slightly overweight boy who joined us was completely thinned down to svelte normality by the end of his first term! I am sorry to say that I was myself a major agent of the trees' fruit loss. I was once caught by my maths teacher with some suspicious spherical forms visible under my jumper. Realising my peril, I had to think fast. Remembering that this teacher was "on duty" that whole day, and thus was subject to the same regime as the rest of us - and that, being somewhat absent minded, he had probably failed to make provision by taking some food into work - I, as nonchalantly as I could, offered him a share of my booty, which I am pleased to say was gratefully accepted. Thus began a long and beautiful understanding. I would supply him with apples; he would refrain from asking about their provenance.