where i disagree

You said: We need to get integrated to the system and prove our value within it. -- i think i see "the system" that i seek to integrate with differently from you. I think you're talking about seeing the alleged value of working within the current Status-quo, while i seek to work with those whom have articulated significant reason for opposing and seeking to "unpack" and dismantle that. Not in spite towards any one group (whom are usually tooled in some way by manipulators higher in the hierarchy). For one, the unchanging pattern of lies and deception by this construct. For 3000 years now. You want to prove your value within that Status-quo, so that means you're going to have to spearhead some kind of BL that Statecraft would readily seek (i.e. in times of stress, like now that Babylon is falling). Maybe bringing back the Spartans is your tact. i'd much rather play and work to prove value within these autonomous-seeking groups kept under the proverbial colonial/neocolonial 'Boot'. Even if that means my body Has To be Taken from me. For spirituaL reasons and my conscience. All while seeking to keep respectful bridges with all comers. Even when we've learned, the Hard Way, not to trust the Status-quo that they still seem to so uncritically Trust. Or maybe you all believe you have no other "choice". Given the gravity of empire. My vision is about the POWER of our CREATIVITY (solo and collective) and the VISION inspired by YOUNG DUDES! How we utilize that privileged gift is up to each of us depending on how we assume or think. What shall you do in order to achieve your alleged safety with the Status-quo, then?? i don't think the State/nato looks upon us as having any "benefit" to them. In light of the bills towards more than one state for the death penalty, i think that position rather obtuse. But i don't blame you. You may think and assume (thanks to that good ol education you paid a hefty sum for) that i'm the one who's INSANE, of course. Well, that's the luck, this time around (in this lifetime) of the proverbial "draw" i guess. See you in future lives, perhaps? Or will there be some sort of last-minute surprise for ALL? (i'm betting on the real space aliens showing up just before we nuke each other to take away our toys!) Toot'L oOoOoo! Perhaps i'll see you at The Cafe At The End of the Universe? i don't know much about the Chinese other than i don't think they had a State-enforced anti-sex/sensuality institution in their her/history. (i do wonder at how you came to your all-encompassing conclusion, tho; got any science to back it up, or what? It seems all too typical of the Strict Conservative approach, so fearful-stuck. i appreciate your sharing your feelings, and i don't mean to offend you... But i went out into the void, that Fear. And i found openings with my own creative approaches. Approaches that rocked the ideological worlds of quite a few professional soldiers and others related. Approaches that my vision says all feeling 'called' may now DARE EXPLORE FREELY. i say, we have hardly even tapped the creative alternative. The hour may be "too late" for us, but in that hour, i would counsel not going quietly! i counsel going LOUD PROUD AND UN-COWED! In such CREATIVE FLAIR THAT the fascists' SOCKS are KNOCKED off!! LIke, imagine a bunch of MAPs riding HORSES and carrying our flags and such, while wearing the liberating outfits of our childhood heroes! Riding horses in a group, crashing some anti-sex zealot parade! Or some neocolonial march! So that's just a tiny spark of possibility. But you would shut all that down due to your own "Lack of Nerve"?? Sorry, your way is not for everyone, just as my way is not for everyone, either! MAY DARING FOLKS 'RUN WITH' THE LIBERATING POWER OF OUR CREATIVE INTELLIGENCE!! In WHATEVER form that may take!! To lots of cheerful and SMART dudes debating you open-endedly!!