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The Vast Slag Heap of History.

Posted by Sick Rose on 2026-April-19 21:07:33, Sunday
In reply to Thornton, Eros: The Myth of Ancient Greek... posted by Pharmakon on 2026-April-18 04:21:52, Saturday

If I recall correctly, the phrase was Arthur Schlesinger's. History is a vast slag heap, a jumble of artifacts and writings that happened to survive; the historian's job is to try to make some sort of sense of it all. But of course the historian's own biases -- not to mention the biases of his or her culture and time -- inevitably affect which writings/artifacts he or she chooses to highlight and which ones he or she ignores or tries to explains away.

So we get this Thornton character who rummages around in Plato's writings and Greek vases, doesn't like what seems to be on the surface -- and he is educated enough that he can present plausible deniability on the framework Plato uses for the Phaedrus or what anyone can see on the vases -- they're just 5th century BC "child abuse materials" -- we have that too!

IOW, he is picking around in the slag heap to find things that support his world view (pederasty bad!) and devising crafty arguments to explain away things that might contradict them.

But is he any worse than so many others? I don't like anal sex so let me find evidence that the Greeks regarded it as despicable. I'm into hunky, hairy guys, not boys, so let me construct an argument that the Greeks weren't into boys, they were precursors of modern fags! I do like anal sex, so let scrounge around in the slag heap to find evidence that the Greeks must have been doing it with their boy lovers. I'm into family values, so I'll find evidence that all that talk of the beauty of boys was just so much abstract theorizing; that that so-called pederasty was a vehicle to help boys become husbands and fathers. I think that sexual repression is linked to fascism and other ills, so let me point to how great it was that Greek boys enjoyed sexual freedom, and erotic affairs between men and boys were celebrated!

Now, one does have to contend with the legacy of Greece -- you can't just ignore it. It was too important. But the historical record is lamentably thin, allowing almost anyone with an axe to grind room to speculate, deny, re-interpret -- what have you.

So do we just ignore history? Of course not. We have to force people to contend with pieces of evidence that get in the way of what they'd like to believe. What is it with those Attic vases? Or the paintings of Caravaggio. Or the writings of Saikaku. Read enough, study enough, spend enough time digging around in the slag heap and you might have to conclude that:

Boys are hot.

Eros is a dangerous and mischievous god who will NOT be mocked for long without deleterious consequences.

Codes of sexual conduct differ widely from place to place and era to era, but there is no such thing as a society without them.

Many boys and many men are drawn to each other.

Family is the fundamental building block of human society.

But so are friendship groups.

Male bonding is wrapped up in the human condition (as is heterosexual pair bonding but then that's true of all forms of life beyond the most primitive. )

SR

Sick Rose

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